Usenet 1993 July/InfoMagic USENET CD-ROM July 1993.ISO/answers/hungarian-faq

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Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!pad-thai.aktis.com!pad-thai.aktis.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Zoltan Fekete)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.europe,soc.answers,news.answers
Subject: Hungarian electronic resources FAQ
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Date: 4 Jul 1993 00:00:07 -0400
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Archive-name: hungarian-faq
Last-modified: 1993/06/03
Version: 0.95

This is part 1 of the FAQ for Hungarian news, discussions, and email.
This part identifies what is available and gives basic instructions for
getting it.  Part 2 gives both fuller information and more complete
instructions, as well as tips on how to search electronic archives for
the information stored there.

NOTE: Part 2 is included together with part 1 for this interim release,
expect separate files in the future! This jump (crawl?) from v0.90
contains some minor editing correction together with announcements
for the MIT Usenet-server's change of address and for AGORA.

Let me start with the many thanks we all owe to Kent Bales, whose superb
work made me possible to finish the current version. Of course all
errors are still my responsibility. As you may notice the content as
well as the format is still too much in a flux to claim exceeding the
v1.0 limit ;-(, but the upgrade is still free :-).

Updated versions of these Frequently Asked Questions of Hungarian
interest (with some answers) are posted to Usenet about every two weeks
and occasionally to the email lists concerned.


NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS

-Q: What services are available in Hungarian language?
-A: A number of them from Hollosi Information Exchange. Write by email
to
[e-mail] with HIX as the Subject and either HELP in
the body or  SUBS SERVICE-NAME (see below). The postings are sent out
daily in digested form. The HIX server can also send out archived files
-- use HELP SENDDOC in the body to learn about this feature.  There are
five services:

     HIRMONDO     -- daily news (edited in Budapest)
     KEPUJSAG     -- videotext news from Hungarian Television
     SZALON       -- moderated political discussion forum
     FORUM        -- unmoderated political discussion forum
     TIPP         -- politics-free discussion, tips etc.

The above are also available interactively with full-text search
capability thru the Internet service gopher. If you know what that beast
is (or dare to try anyway :-)) then enter: gopher andrea.stanford.edu
and proceed thru the menus. Or if you have telnet access, you can use
the following hosts:

     Hostname                  IP#              Login   Area
     ------------------------- ---------------  ------  -------------
     consultant.micro.umn.edu  134.84.132.4     gopher  North America
     gopher.uiuc.edu           128.174.33.160   gopher  North America
     panda.uiowa.edu           128.255.40.201   panda   North America
     gopher.sunet.se           192.36.125.2     gopher  Europe
     info.anu.edu.au           150.203.84.20    info    Australia
     gopher.chalmers.se        129.16.221.40    gopher  Sweden
     tolten.puc.cl             146.155.1.16     gopher  South America
     ecnet.ec                  157.100.45.2     gopher  Ecuador

There are also many FAQ-like documents (mostly Hungarian) archived
there, including the full database called RADIR of the registered
Hungarian users.

 Another source is the user-configurable email discussion group AGORA,
distributed by my server ZFIX. To get its description in Hungarian send
an email message to [e-mail] with this Subject: AGORA$SEGITS
(the body of these messages gets ignored).

NOTE: AGORA is up and running (most of the time anyways ;-)) in a new
(hopefuly final) place and with a new server being rewritten under Unix
for improved functionality - it is still experimental, so be patient if
you want to try it out now. The address *for list messages only*:
[e-mail], please do not send server messages there
since they are not getting properky handled yet (contact me if have
questions, subscription requests etc.)! For those who knew the old
server ZFIX: be patient, it'll be back with a facelift Real Soon Now
:-).

 A third, SZEMLE, digests selected pieces from other forums.  Write
[e-mail] for information - to subscribe
make Subject: KELL and include your name and address in the message.

-Q: Are there Hungarian-related services primarily in English?
-A: HUNGARY@GWUVM is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by email from
[e-mail] using no subject and a message consisting only of
SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname.  Once you have subscribed, any
messages which you want to send to the group should be sent to the group
address, [e-mail]. (This pattern of two addresses is
standard: you turn your mail off and on at the "listserv" address, and
you send mail to the listname address.  For example, to  unsubscribe,
send the server the message SIGNOFF HUNGARY.  You can temporarily turn
off you mail by sending listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL.  SET
HUNGARY MAIL turns mail back on.)

On Usenet there is soc.culture.magyar, mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. If you're not using Usenet,
ask around your site -- it's available on many Internet hosts on what
normally is known as the network news service. If you're under Unix, try
the newsreaders rn, nn, vn or trn; under other operating systems it may
be NEWSREADER or a similar name. If you don't have local access, try
TELNET BBS.ACS.UNC.EDU or FREENET-IN-A.CWRU.EDU, where you can request a
permanent guest account with Usenet privileges (among other things).

Use FTP to learn more about Usenet from the archive site
RTFM.MIT.EDU (starting with the file
/pub/usenet/news.answers/news-answers-intro, which lists a number of
alternative archives located in Europe as well). If you do not have
anonymous FTP access, you can access the archives by mail server as
well.
To learn how, see Part Two of this FAQ or send an email message to
[e-mail] with HELP and INDEX on separate lines of the
body (make sure you put the dash in the address above!).

NOTE: RTFM used to be called PIT-MANAGER, please use the former address
instead of the latter that's being phased out!

NEWS AND DISCUSSION OF EAST CENTRAL EUROPE

-Q: Are there reports and discussions about Hungary in its political and
geographical contexts?

-A: Several. You can get daily transcripts of Radio Free Europe news
from [e-mail] by sending the message SUBSCRIBE RFERL-L
Yourfirstname Lastname.  (Hungarian items in the RFE news are often
excerpted on Usenet's soc.culture.magyar.)  The listserv at Buffalo
also will subscribe you to the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L
or to POLAND-L or SLOVAK-L.  Send the usual SUBSCRIBE Command.  On
Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian.  The Central European Regional
Research Organization (CERRO) can be joined at LISTSERV@AEARN with the
command SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly
group that deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in
Vienna. Business news can be subscribed to through
[e-mail].  Use the message SUBSCRIBE E-EUROPE Firstname
Lastname, then send a second message as follows: AFD ADD E-EUROPE
HUNGARY (this is without your name).

EMAIL

-Q: What are the network connections with Hungary, including BBS
networks such as FidoNet?
-A: There are four network domains: kfki.hu (Central Research Institute
for Physics), elte.hu (Eotvos University), sztaki.hu and all other *.hu
addresses (Hungarian Academy of Sciences), and hu.earn.bitnet and
huella.bitnet (also H.A.S.).  FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as
indicated above.

Email is usually fast if you have the right address. For Internet
mailings, don't forget to add a "hu" at the end for Hungary (ex.:
[e-mail]); for Bitnet addresses, "Hungary" is in the
nodename (ex.: correspondent@huella).  There are three FidoNet nodes:
Budapest NET (2:371:0); West Hungary Net (2:372/0); and Tisza NET
(2:370/0).  If you want to write on the FidoNet, chances are you already
know how.  If not, see Part 2 of this FAQ, where there are also
telephone numbers and further addresses.  If you are on Internet or
Bitnet and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by adding
.FIDONET.ORG at the end.

-Q: How do you contact someone in Hungary by email?
-A: If you don't know the address, ask by using the old technology of
pen, paper, and postage stamp (or telephone).
 There are attempts to establish directory services in Hungary but
their availability to the outside world has seemed sporadic so far. At
the moment your best bet is to use HIX's RADIR database - see above.
Requesting it via email with SENDDOC should be your last resort given
its huge size and unwieldy structure, but you can easily search online
with gopher.
 Alternatively you might check out TIPP's subscriber list (HIX's
SENDDOC feature will tell you how) or send an inquiry to a discussion
group. Readers of Usenet's soc.culture.magyar and Bitnet's HUNGARY
discussion list may be able to help. Or you can send a query to the
postmaster of the Hungarian network or local server.  (See Part Two of
this FAQ for help.)

-Q: How are Hungarian accented letters usually represented?
-A: There are a number of solutions, mostly based on TeX. For starters
check out SENDDOC programs etex.Z and hion.Z from HIX (see above) and
also the babel system for LaTeX with Hungarian specific option,
available
from FTP sites kth.se or goya.dit.upm.es. Most commonly, a long vowel is
marked with the numeral 1 (hi1d), a short "umlaut" with a 2, and a long
one with a 3 (o3ru2lt).

HOW TO IMPROVE THIS FAQ

-Q: How should I send suggestions, hatemail etc. concerning this FAQ?
-A: I hereby solicit any additions, corrections, suggestions or
questions.
My primary email address is [e-mail]. *Please* note that due to the
high volume of email messages without informative SUBJECT: lines get
deleted without reading (and putting READ THIS won't do any good ;-) )!

Begin the SUBJECT: line with the string ZFIX$KERDES (followed by a
descriptive subject of your choice) to enable automatized mail handling.

NOTE: the following is included together with part 1 for this interim
release, expect separate files in the future!

                Part 2

Part 2 amplifies information on Hungarian news, discussions, and email
and adds information about useful computer resources, computing in
Hungary, and other such technical matters.

Updated versions of these Frequently Asked Questions of Hungarian
interest (with some answers) are posted to Usenet and the email lists
concerned about every two weeks.

BASICS: BITNET, INTERNET, USENET, INDEPENDENT, AND COMMERCIAL NETWORKS

Your access varies depending upon the net you operate within.  Bitnet
discussion lists leave messages in your mailbox, and you send mail
messages to all other list members by writing to the list address.
Internet users can easily subscribe because the two networks have many
"gateways" or nodes where the networks intersect.  Usenet and
independents such as FidoNet are different.  They forward messages to
and from their nodes, using Internet gateways whenever possible for
long-distance relays, but they don't have access to Bitnet discussion
lists.  (You, however, can have somebody you know who has Bitnet access
forward list messages to and for you.  This is frequently done.)  Many
Internet and Usenet nodes participate in Usenet News, a world-wide,
volunteer aggregation of discussion groups which one joins and
participates in by calling up the discussion-group messages stored for
that purpose.  More an extensive bulletin board than a mailbox, it is
cheaper to operate because it uses much less memory.  All members of
soc.culture.magyar, for example, read messages stored at a few sites;
all members of Bitnet's HUNGARY read the same message stored in
mailboxes all over the world.

At Bitnet-Internet gateways, Bitnet users can usually get access to
Usenet News by behaving as though they are Internet users.  (Ask how,
locally.) Otherwise they can use Telnet (TELNET BBS.ACS.UNC.EDU or
TELNET FREENET-IN-A.CWRU.EDU, where you can request a permanent guest
account with Usenet privileges, among other things).  Independent nodes
usually don't give access to all Usenet News groups -- only to those
most interesting to their users -- so make yourself heard if you use an
independent.  Commercial nets usually are the same, giving access to the
most popular groups on Usenet and other discussion networks.

RETRIEVING OLD NEWS AND DISCUSSIONS: FTP AND MAIL RETRIEVALS

Most Usenet groups and virtually all Bitnet lists store old messages in
archives, which can be searched by the fileserver or by FTP.  FTP (File
Transfer Protocol) is available on the Internet but, for technical
reasons, not on Bitnet or the others.  Bitnet provides a retrieval
service, however. Write to BITFTP@PUCC with HELP as the message and you
will receive full instructions.  Some of them will be irrelevant to
getting messages from the archives.  The concepts should become clearer
from what follows.

First you must know what to ask for, and for a list that you know about
or belong to you can simply ask LISTSERV to tell you what's in the
archive.  Say you want material from Bitnet's HUNGARY list.  Write
[e-mail] with the message LISTDOC HUNGARY, and you'll get
back the name(s) of the archived files, probably listed by month.  You
won't need FTP to get these. Commands for getting them, however, vary
from list to list, group to group. To get E-EUROPE's list, you first ask

LISTSERV@PUCC the following: INDEX E-EUROPE.  Then, having found the
files or month that you want, you send the command GET E-EUROPE
filetype-thus-and-so (as determined from the index). Sometimes LISTSERV
will tell you the precise form of the the command, but it is good to
have handy BITNET USERHELP, gotten from [e-mail] with the
command GET BITNET USERHELP.

FTP is a UNIX process which lets you transfer files from a distant
computer to your own system if you're on Internet.  A good way of
testing if it's available is simply to type FTP at your prompt.  If you
are prompted for an address, you've got FTP!  So either type the
address you want or start again and do all on one line:

     ftp ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu

(This example is for the archive of the Humanities Computing Facility at
UCSB, thanks to Eric Dahlin).  Log on with the name "anonymous," and use
your e-mail address as a password.  Next, move to the directory
containing the files by entering the command:

     cd hcf

Now that you're in the correct directory, you can get a list of all the
file names by entering the command:

     ls

Then, to transfer any of the files to your own system, enter the
command:
     get filename

It's often wise to transfer first the file called "readme," which may
show the contents of each of the files in the directory and certainly
will tell you more about that directory.  If you don't know in advance
what directory to change to, move through the directory tree using the
"ls" command and wise guesses about where you want to go.  With luck,
you'll get what you want.  The commands may be strange (if you're a
stranger to UNIX, but you need only a few. UNIX is case-sensitive, so
use lower-case letters, as indicated here.

Finally, end your session with the "quit" command.  If "quit" won't get
you out, try "bye" or "logout" (or Ctrl-D from Unix).

(Anonymous FTP is also the usual method for getting public domain and
"freeware" or "shareware" software from the many archives around the
world.  The courtesy asked for by these archives is that for large
transfers you use anonymous ftp only after hours, when machine time
isn't needed for big jobs.)


Most archive files are compressed, so you'll have to uncompress them.
If you need to learn about this, ftp oak.oakland.edu, cd
/pub/msdos/starter and get 00-index.txt. Text files are often simply
ZIPped.  These can be downloaded all the way to your machine, then
unzipped with an UNZIP program.  PKZIP and UNZIP are available through
Gopher and locally from a BBS.

HELP WITH FINDING THE RIGHT FILE AND DIRECTORY: ARCHIE AND GOPHER

There are shortcuts, so that you find precisely the file and its
location(s) by searching a database.  In or near Canada, Telnet to
ARCHIE.MCGILL.CA; in the U.S., Telnet ARCHIE.SURA.NET (in MD),
ARCHIE.UNL.EDU (in NE), ARCHIE.ANS.NET (in NY), or ARCHIE.RUTGERS.EDU
(in NJ).

Or you can TELNET a GOPHER, which will include FTP sites on its menu.
Choose that option and, as with ARCHIE, give GOPHER names or key words
to look up. What you'll get is a list of sites, complete with full
directory pathways, to files containing in their names the word or words
you asked to be searched. Knowing this, you can confidently proceed to
follow the Anonymous FTP retrieval instructions given above.  Or you can
let GOPHER do the work for you.  It will write the file to your computer
account, and you can then download it.

GOPHER is now in use at a number of sites around the world, including
Vienna and Graz, so that Hungarian electronic archives should be
searchable with Gopher's aid.  Gopher plugs right into Archie sites.
Because it also usually contains electronic addresses for local users,
it may soon be a good source for Central European e-mail addresses.
CONSULTANT.MICRO.UMN.EDU is the grandparent GOPHER site, and you can get
a complete list of current GOPHERs from CONSULTANT.

E-MAIL AND OTHER COMPUTING IN HUNGARY

Hungary's four domains (basically four separate lines) are these:

kfki.hu (Central Research Institute for Physics)
elte.hu (Eotvos University[Budapest])
sztaki.hu and all other *.hu (Automation and Computerization Institute,
            Hungarian Academy of Sciences)
huearn.bitnet and huella.bitnet.

They connect to the world as follows:

             ------------
  ___      /| UUCP nodes |
 /   \____/  ------------
|  X  | X25  ------------
|  2  |-----| ELLA users |
/  5  \      ------------                                       To Linz,
\     /       -----------  dial-up  ------                      9.6 kbps
|  N  | X.25 |           |---------| UUCP |                         ^
|  e  |------|  sztaki   |   ...    ======                          |
/  t  /      | EUnet BB  |---------| nodes|                      X25|
\  w  \       -----------\          ------          SLIP    ---     |
|  o  |            |      `--------------------------------| H |    |
|  r  |       -----------           -----------            | B |----
|  k  |      |  gateway  |---------|           |    BSC    | O |
\    _/       -----------          |  HUEARN   |-----------| X |
 |__/ \            |               |           |            ---
       \X25   -----------           -----------
        \    |           |
         `---|   ELLA    |----(dial-up)
             |   (IIF)   |      users
              -----------

Hungary has a connection to EARN (European Research Network) which is a
9.6 kbps leased line from Budapest to Linz. They use the same line
through a multiplexer to connect the EUnet backbone to mcsun and the
Internet. There is a local gateway between the EUnet backbone and the
EARN  national backbone. It is possible to connect to the EUnet backbone
using the national X.25 network or dial-up lines up to 9.6 kbps speed.
There is also a central mailbox system called ELLA that individual users
can connect to.  Most universities and research institutes are connected
to the ELLA mail-only network (typical address: [e-mail]).
Part One of this FAQ tells how to get addresses.  You can also ask the
postmasters for help.  ELLA's is h1006pos@huella.  (Or [e-mail],
Internet style.)

FidoNet mail into and out of Hungary is routed through sztaki, while
inside Hungary it travels through these three networks:

Net/Node  Network           Data Phone    Coordinator        Location
2:370/0   Tisza NET         36-56-72-189  Petro Erno         Szolnok
2:371/0   Budapest NET      36-1-118-7950 Jeszenszky Sandor  Budapest
2:372/0   West Hungary NET  36-22-18-039  Mucs Bela    Szekesfehervar

The chief nodes of these nets are as follows:

                            Hungarian FidoNet Nodes

Type  Node Board's Name        Phone Number     City               Baud
====  ==== ============        ============     ====               ====
REGION  37 Hungary             36-56-372-189    HUNGARY            9600
HOST   370 Tisza NET           36-56-372-189    Szolnok HUN        9600
         1 BBSzolnok           36-56-372-189    Szolnok HUN        9600
        10 Hajdu TAKISZ 12-22  36-52-49-856     Debrecen HUN       2400
        14 Eger BBS            36-36-310-010    Eger HUN           2400
        15 LifeForce 18-06     36-52-49-662     Debrecen HUN       2400
HOST   371 Budapest NET        36-1-118-7950    Budapest HUN       2400
         1 Budapest BBS        36-1-118-7950    Budapest HUN       2400
         6 Amiga Dreamland BBS 36-1-131-9232    Budapest HUN       9600
         7 BitStar 21-07       36-1-202-5276    Budapest HUN       2400
         9 VirNet Budapest     36-1-115-4402    Budapest HUN       9600
        11 CoCyBorG 21.30-06   36-1-157-2455    Budapest HUN       9600
        12 Khayll              36-1-165-2792    Budapest HUN       2400
        14 <Xorn's Cave        36-1-266-4884 HO Budapest HUN       2400
        16 Just For Fun        36-1-185-8658    Budapest HUN       2400
        17 Guriga              36-1-177-2949    Budapest HUN       2400
        18 OSTER 22-07         36-1-155-7770    Budapest HUN       9600
HOST   372 West Hungary NET    36-22-318-039    Szekesfehervar HUN 2400
         1 NETputer            36-22-318-039    Szekesfehervar HUN 2400
         2 Turul               36-34-17-116     Tatabanya HUN      9600
         4 PTBBS               36-72-13-048     Pecs HUN           2400
         5 Savaria             36-94-27-878     Szombathely HUN    2400

So how do you reach your friend at Amiga Dreamland, Budapest?  She is on
node 6 of the Budapest Net, which has a FidoNet address of 2:371/0 -- or
Zone 2, Net 371, Node 0.  Replace Node 0 with Node 6 (Amiga Dreamland's
nodenumber) and you have the address 2:371/6, which translates into
Zone (z) 2, Net (n) 371, node (f) 6.  Now you have to assemble an
address.  Reverse the numbers in the following format, adding the
addressee's name at the head and the FidoNet domain at the foot.  Here's
what you get: [e-mail] (note that the network
number is composed of the region, 37 for Hungary, and the chief node in
the network, 1 for Budapest).  No, that's not easy, but it gets easier
with experience.

Other Bulletin Board Systems are these (as of February 1993):

Artur BBS               *(56) 374-033 /1580
Akszel BBS              (1)  1188-071
BBSchool                *(32) 16-233 /16
Bekescsaba BBS          (66) 324-238
DataMine                (1)  115-4616 17.00-08.00
Electro Net             *(72) 10-711 /5251 7.00-15.00 weekdays (12-801)
Eszterhazy              (36) 312-661 8.00-18.00 trial !!
F.P.V.P.                (1)  1175-092
GBS BBS                 (73) 21-297
HaliCabel               (1)  175-0409
InfoSys                 (1)  185-2832
Magic                   (99) 14-209 06.00-21.00
MBBBBBS                 (72) 17-226 22.00-10.00
MicroTel                (1)  2273-179
Mordor                  (80) 24-432  16.00-07.00 (nonstop on weekends)
MultiLine CBCS          (46) 324-222     PBX 12 lines (number changed)
NoName                  (1)  1471-061
Pirate Board System     (1)  1273-691 21.00-17.00 - AMIGA
Software Bridge         (1)  180-0214
TELE PC BME             (1)  1139-813
TITaSZ BBS              *(56) 340-411 /7382
TITaSZ BBS              (56) 379-616
Xact                    (1)  1764-099

TRAVELLING WITH A COMPUTER IN HUNGARY

The electricity is 220 volt, 50 cycles, but in fact it fluctuates a
lot.  A battery driven laptop or notebook is your best bet.  You can
drive a printer through a simple small converter, but check plug types
in advance.  The Hungarian standard is two-pronged, and your computer or
printer may well be three-pronged.  The converter may also be
three-pronged stepped down to two-pronged, but check before you leave.
Just in case, take along one three-prong to two-prong plug adapter, to
if you want to plug in the battery charger and the printer at the same
time.

You want e-mail?  If you will be working at a university or research
institute or large business, chances are you can get access to ELLA.
But if it's just a visit, the best is to get on the FidoNet.

-- Zoli Fekete   [e-mail]  (if that fails, use [e-mail])
                alternative addresses: at530 on the Cleveland Freenet
                                        Zoli.Fekete on the UNC BBS
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." - Rudyard Kipling